I suggest you read this link: http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v18n1/v18n1-MAPS_24.pdf

It's a one page confession by Dennis R. Wier about the links between computer programming and lsd hehe. It's just an example really, but I've often read that in the past.

Also, Stanislav Grof says that lsd for instance cannot be hold responsible for what happens under its influence, which is I think very interesting:

"I would say these two reactions reflect the basic misconception, that LSD is either good or bad. It is neither. By itself, LSD has no intrinsic healing potential, nor does it have any intrinsic destructive potential. The outcome depends on who is doing it, with whom, for what purpose and under what circumstances. Yet everything that happens under the influence of LSD tends to be credited or blamed on the drug itself.

Years ago, during the initial flurry of bad publicity over LSD, I had a very interesting discussion with Humphrey Osmond, one of the early pioneers of LSD research. He pointed out the ridiculous turn the debate had taken by pointing out that LSD is just a tool. He said if the worth of some other tool, a knife for instance, was discussed in the same way LSD was, you'd have a policeman saying it was bad, while pushing statistics of people killed with knives in back alleys. A surgeon would see it as good, pointing out the healing possibilities of the knife. A housewife might talk about cutting salami. An artist might talk about wood carving. As you can see, what is being said says less about the knife than about how it is used. We don't make the mistake of blaming or crediting the knife with how it's used, but with LSD it's all kind of thrown together."

Source: http://www.lightparty.com/Spirituality/LSD.html

Hmmm, that was an interesting read. But I don't know what to think of it. Could not he have done it without the lsd dose? Maybe he would have just needed more time to concentrate on visualizing the system.

But anyway, what the quote says is quite true. Psychedelics may be more a tool with different possibilities rather than a pharmaceutical compound or a self-destructive demon.

I might add to my original post, that I do not disrespect or judge any decided psychonauts or bohemian decadents what so ever. Each to his or her own, Do what thou wilt etc. Your mind, your body. People with psychological problems might be attracted to the escape into a drug-induced haze, either to forget their lives or to augment other sides of themselves. Might bring out some demons, might not. Drugs doesn't produce either jerks or wrecks. I like that knife simile. It's like that quote from Scream: "horror movies doesn't inspire killers... it just makes them a bit more creative".

Personally, I'd prefer to face my demons completely sober, and enhance my mind with art and philosophy (aaargh, that just sounds so fucking pretentious I want to punch myself in the face). to quote a friend of mine who was into a lot of chemical stimulants earlier in her life: "I'm to post-modern to use psychedelic drugs".

I agree on the last quotes, psychedelics only make more evident (or more likely to happen) what already is in the mind, this has connection to the previous quotes where lsd was a tool, of course. A tool to help certain aspects of the mind bloom out temporarily.

But, I have to disagree with the computer being a psychedelic tool. Computers are not psychoactive by them alone, you may be activating your psyche in one way or another while using your computer, but itself isn't a psychedelic tool, is just another kind of tool that doesn't at all help your brain activate certain regions in ways different than writing a letter or answering a phone would. Or, at least I think so.

Why do you state that your computer acts like a psychedelic tool? I can understand that, by using it, you are activating some communication algorythms of your mind, but we indeed could communicate in a computerless state, be it, as I said, via hand-written letter, phone call, or just talking if we were next to each other. Then what kind of psychedelic would we be using if talking? (not that we would need any, I guess).

Are we referring to drugs as substances or states of consciousness? Because in that case I find consciousness and awareness very powerful "drugs" as they help me explore my mind and I don't know about you guys but mine takes me out there sometimes without any support.

Apparently, ketamine can be used as a hallucinogenic drug. No side effects.

I agree with what has been said that psychedelic drugs let things happen. Personally I encourage psychedelic drug consumption. I think it would be very beneficial if more of us were subjected to some serious reality checks.

I can't really say I've had many positive experiences with drugs. I've dabbled in quite a few, but I've never done heroin, crack, or meth, primarily because I've witnessed each one of those destroy a few friends of mine. I did go through a minor coke addiction several years ago ("minor coke addiction" sounds like an oxymoron). Most of my hallucinogen experiences were ruined because I generally hung out with people whose goal it was to make everyone's trip a terrible experience (one time I seriously thought my television was trying to kill me). The one time I did LSD with a close female friend of mine was a pleasurable experience.

All in all I'm not anti-narcotics. It's not my right to tell you you are wrong for doing them, it's your body and your right to put whatever you want into it. The last time I partook of any illegal kind myself was in 2007, which was just a couple bong hits. I think the United States' "War on Drugs" is a massive waste of funding, and that marijuana ought to be legalized. Having kicked my old, more destructive and self-deprecating, habits, I'm quite content with alcohol and nicotine for now.

How would you describe your ketamine trips?

Oliver: The problem is that many substances are classified under the Controlled Substances Act. MDMA and marijuana/THC are classified as Schedule I, which according to the act says:



This classification makes it impossible for scientists to do research on them to present to Congress for reclassification (the act does not only apply to illegal substances, all drugs are classified in some way under the act; there are five different classifications). THC is there mostly because of the anti-marijuana propaganda from the 50s (if you have not seen Reefer Madness, you should watch it, it's hilarious), and MDMA because of the many reports of deaths resulting from it during the 80s and early 90s. If there were a way for scientists to do legal research on them they could be reclassified as either legal for public use or medicinal use.

In the case of MDMA I had heard that it had some use in psychiatric treatment of some mental and social disorders in the 70s and 80s. It wasn't made illegal until it became popular in the party and rave scenes and reports of deaths resulting from its use became widespread.

It's a catch-22. They could be legalized if there were research to show their medicinal uses, but the research can't be done because of their Schedule I classification. Ironically drugs that are considered by the public to be more destructive than THC or MDMA, like cocaine and opium, are Schedule II... deemed less addictive and having some merit in medicinal properties.

It just pisses me off because we have a massive problem with an overpopulated and bloated prison system, and a lot of it has to do with the War on Drugs... imprisoning people just for possession or even just possession of paraphernalia. At this point the benefits of legalization (freeing up much of the prison system, massive profits in tariffs and taxes for the federal government, wider acceptance for medicinal use) far outweigh the current disadvantages. This would probably be easier to do for THC than MDMA, but I could see a movement toward legalizing MDMA, for purely medicinal purposes, arising along the same lines as the current argument for legalizing THC. I doubt any movements would go beyond those narcotics though. Drugs like cocaine, heroin, meth, and opium still have an ingrained negative stigma in the population (which I personally think is justified).

It's strange what Thor said about Perdition City sending him nightmares once he was with fever or something... I remember a time when I was stomach-ill, and probably with medium to high fever as I had a completely unnatural temperature feeling and I listened to Portishead's live in NYC and I kind of listened to it in a different way than usual, I think it truly acted like a sedative to me. Also, my girl tells that once she was with 38º-39º fever and she listened to In the Woods...' Omnio in that state, and she completely hallucinated.

Well, high fever by itself can induce delirium, but could we be talking of an alternative kind of altered mind states (the mix of fever/illnes and music)? I remember what Oliver said about the computer acting as a psychedelic tool in some way, so could in the same manner an illness affect our minds and make us more receptive to music?

I usually listen to music in a different way when I'm somewhat ill, even sometimes I do not want to listen music at all, which is strange in me.

Also I remember having thought of the thc high as a kind of induced
temporary illness, as you have some body constants (be it brain chemicals) altered, as if you had your temperature altered, some hormones or anything.

And I, as some said earlier in this post, always thought that the best drug to me is music (or music with thc back in those days), too. Some say that once you have tried some drugs, the brain itself can achieve getting high by itself, I suppose that in part this must be true as drugs mostly make the brain change some chemical substances' quantity in our body, but most of those chemicals are already there from the start. Maybe we can help that with music?

Just some reflections of the I here.

I think any kind of change to the human mind influences the hearing. Obviously in extreme cases like taking acid or other hallucinogens, or trance/meditation, but also when ill (fever fucks the head up!). Or just tired. You open up in a different way than when your mind is perfectly clear. I am for example a much better bassist when hung over (not the nausea-headache-red wine hangover but the pleasant tired-as-hell hangover). I think Carl-Michael said in an interview once that he hadn't written any decent music when high, but that a lot of interesting music has come to him when deprived of sleep.

I've had some pretty rad experiences when listening to music either cosily drunk or half-asleep; a floating sensation when falling into KATHARSIS - WorldWithoutEnd when almost falling asleep beer-drunk at Bergraven's house. The stereo effects of KING CRIMSON - Moonchild and ARCTURUS - Ad Astra became almost kaleidoscopic visuals lying in the dark extremely tired. The echoing trip-hoppy drums of Hellhammer was like a rolling thunder over hill tops, and the tiny pieces of melodies and trills of KC became like little flurries jumping through the air in front of me. Pretty strange, no hallucinogens required. Though I bet it would have been much cooler on whatever acid or mushroom.

Heh, once I felt the earth shake under me when blasting away the first track of FUNERAL MIST - Salvation way to loud in my mp3-player. That was wicked.

@Adryuu

Taken from http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/sym/hallucinations.htm:

"Hallucinations can arise from a high fever or other illness involving a fever. These type of febrile hallucinations arise particularly in children and the elderly."

"A high fever, especially in children, can evoke hallucinations, consciousness changes, or dream-like states that resemble hallucinogenic states. Requires urgent medical attention."

Some people, on a forum, talk about the hallucinations they have from high fever:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=69308

It would seem that your girlfriend has that kind of experience.

i started doing it when a freind intriduced it in around 1998 and did it on and off till about 2006...like i said it is pretty fukin killer...infcat the bizaarest most vivid hallucinations i have evr had were with ketamin...lsd dditn come close...

step one : an euphoric feeling like being on coke and drunk without the loss of cognitve abilities....or coordination...frames skip and shit...your msucles go numbe so you can do super atheletic stuff really fast for short periods (15-25 mins)...the high lasts 30-45 mins depenidng on how tolerant u have become

stage two : reality lowly slips away and u are doinga dn saying weird stuff withou really thinking about ti...it come snatural...and reality starts blurring...shapes tsrat to defrom...buldinhgs and landscapes vhanegs theri from...so do people....

stage 3 : brain fry !!! outta this wolrd...trans-dimensional trips...other planets,...starts...weird stuff...sometimes really dark lovecraftian shit (maybe its my head)....sometimes getting stuvk in some strange world without a way back...at least it seems like that...sometimes real brain fry ...as in some permannet damage...espcially with drink you can go into respiratory dpresison leaidng to coma and death....

there are anumber of k variant avaiable in the market...it si prescribed anesthetic...barnms i have used and found fun (sic) include ketamin, ketlar, ketamax, and super k(excatly what it says)

When I read that (specially the last sentence), I really thought that stage three would become completely unreadable!
You must write more slowly, Suleiman. Sometimes it's hard for me to understand some words (I've been a while until I realized vhanegs means changes, that if I'm not mistaken).

That respiratory depression thing looks scary by the way. I've never met anyone doing K, at least that I know of, or that I have met again after doing K. But I also heard it is the shit and the most out there thing.




I think it's not always a good idea to recommend psychedelics to someone who is not really interested and knows a little about what could happen to him/her. Of course though that results may vary and aVoid could have an awesome trip.


I think I have to agree to this. Humans do not use their brain at full potential, so without psychedelics it's very hard (or maybe impossible) to experience some things. On the other hand, I think that substances only enhance what already is on the mind, so if we could use our brains at full potential we would not need that, we would constantly be over the wildest trip, in my opinion. Even maybe some kind of meditation could lead to similar states of consciousness, which I still doubt. Of course I may be wrong on all this and have a too particular conception of the thing. Maybe Oliver has studied a bit along this lines and can enlighten us.

Wow, I was kinda overwhelmed by all the large replys
Thanks for sharing all of you.
As for my usual 2c-e setting I have done it twice in a group of friends but it is NOT a perfect drug for such an occasion, all other serotonergic psychedelics (phenethylamines,triptamines and LSD/LSA) fit better for a small group of friends. I then usually did it with one of my tripping buddies but we both were i different rooms, so if anything happened we had someone to talk to but basically we could trip and explore alone... and there is nothing motre important to me but to smoke a joint with a buddy and talk about the trip while coming down.

i cannot hide my ignorance any longer :

what da fuk is 2c-e ?

and more importantly, how do u make it from household supplies ?