Oliver you said it well, we have to ask ourselves what the true INSPIRATION for artists like these could be. I 'm not proficient in theology but still I get the feeling that DSO (like, for instance, C93, just as an example of Christian/Anti-Christian background) want to portray some kind of intrinsic flaw in human existence, something sinful, sordid and corrupted, conveying this through music of utmost depravity. As you already hinted at, Oliver, this manifestation of pure contempt and disgust towards the whole essence of humanity is just so effective because of its inhuman qualities, its unbridled, bestially possessed testimony to the uncanny and sublime powers of decay and eternal dissolution into the void.

This uncompromising conviction to the message of all-pervasive emptiness!
The only "evil" in our world...

I can't help but get a feeling of pretentiousness describing unfathomable, abysmal emotions by means of mundane, feeble linguistic concepts

"Nothing is so intolerable to man as being fully at rest, without passion, without business, without entertainment, without care. It is then that he recognizes that he is empty, insufficient, dependent, ineffectual. From the depths of his soul now comes at once boredom, gloom, sorrow, chagrin, resentment and despair."
- Blaise Pascal (Les Pensées)

...

That's very well said... I think you've pretty much nailed the general intention behind most Anti-Christian or Christian-related darker bands, be it conscious or unconscious. They're blowing out of proportions, maximizing so to speak, the "sordidness" of Christian sin (the intrinsic human flaw), sometimes going as far as using religious symbols (inverted or not), spiritual themes (self-destructive or not), out of context quotes from theologians and philosophers, etc., even though they will tell you how anti-religion, agnostic and atheist they are, which is plain ridiculous in my view. I get the feeling that many black metal bands in particular seem to mistaken their "musical exemplification of human sordidness" for a critical stance on Christianity, and therefore for a demonstration of their supposedly Anti-Christian values. But what's more typically Christian than to emphasize the sinful content in man, I wonder?



Yeah, and that's why I much prefer to indulge myself into the music (taking the vocals as instruments) rather than in the lyrics, if there are lyrics at all.

Yeah but to me at least DSO seem quite obsessed in bringing CHRISTIAN archetypal concepts across. There is this "reverse creation" kind of thing going on but it still seems ultimately non-critical of Christianity, rather they adapt the same sphere of metaphysical reality and pervert it from the inside while still pertaining to all the dogmas.

But I second your feeling that the intensity of the music should be enough to convey all the involved emotions. I, too, am a bit tired of reading all the religious quotations and bold lyrics, though I do believe that DSO as a rare example may even have read the bible...

I remember the "voice" of DSO (from what I've heard, the band is just one guy, probably Hasjarl, doing everything, then adding people from outside to do vocals, drums, visuals etc), he started working with Mikko on the basis that they had "come to the same conclusions and views on human life/existence etc from two utterly different standpoints", that is of course not a direct quote, that is Hasjarl or whatever he's called made his way to his Satanism through intense theological/philosophical/psychological studies, whereas Mikko comes from the absolute gravel pit of what humanity is really about (rape, incest, humiliation, torture, etc), in a very non-literal way (the guy's written English is awful).
As FragileOak wrote, they are becoming a bit OTT with all the quotes, but at least they do it from a deep moral/religious belief and a great academic desire, rather than just acting cool. And yeah, they/he have/has probably read more chapters in the Bible & the apocryphal texts than most "Orthodox" BM-satanists! (except those that have converted to Catholicism/Christianity, there are a few of those here in Sweden).

I must admit that I have rarely actually read the lyrics of DSO. I pour through them once in a while, but they are often too esoteric and poetical for me to fully grasp. Most of the lyrics on Si Monumentum are fine, esp. Sola Fide I and II, I catch the drift, but the later releases... I keep to the music.

But I enjoy this ambiguity they have towards mankind & divinity, that supposedly Satanic bands like Dark Funeral lack. They revel in the sin of humankind... as does the Catholic church (as mentioned) by Olivier. I mean, they are most likely pro-Vatican, given all the atrocities done connected to it (from paedophile priests to crusades etc). It's not just the black-and-white "we love Evil and Satan and hate God". Very reminiscent of the power electronics genre, I mean... do these guys hate the prostitutes and hail the serial killers who go after them, or do they hate both because they are both scum, or what? Is God great because of all the nastinesses in his creation or... what? I think that deep inside, they're just Christians. Really.
But I guess it's just safe to say that they are, like Darkthrone, "for all the Evil in Man". Period.

What I don't like is that they are becoming a bit of a cash-grabber. OK that they released these two Manifestation albums, with long since OOP material, but I admit that I'm quite irritated at the re-release of the Mass-Grave Aesthetics track as one single CD. I'm not interested in paying 2/3 of a full album price for one 20-minute track, and then probably later this year pay the same money for the next 20-minute track they might release (Diabolus Absconditus). A lot of money from the collectors flowing into NED.

Jesus Christ that came out long. Sorry!

"Once underlined what our amibitions realistically can be, we indeed, although remaining very humble, address ourselves to Satan. Satan as a metaphysical entity, this can not be said loud enough. All other interpretations of Satan are intellectually invalid, for people need to realise that mere etymological arguments or, worse, small-minded rationality can not be considered as a finality, but merely minuscule fragments of a metaphysical phenomenon, of the most dangerous thing among all: Truth."

Source: http://ezxhaton.kccricket.net/interview.html

From a Deathspell Omega interview... All I want to point out is come on guys, give "Satan as a metaphysical entity" a break... I think there are many other things to worry about in life. I think there are as many "Satan" as there are "Satanic" bands. Let's go for another kind of Satan...

Is the "21st Century Devil" a reflection on our contemporary society?

"By some measure it is, but it's about the individual's place in the new century on his/her quest to find self-fulfillment. To become the 21st century devil so to speak, is to accomplish your capacities in the light of your timeline."

Who is the Supervillain Outcast?

"In the light of our literal history, I would say the biggest supervillain outcast is Satan... But it also represents resistance and rebellion, to free yourself from the faceless systems of society and in the process entering the great becoming of your capacities, entering your potential."

About the Satanic aspect of the lyrics being different from other bands...

"But you are indeed right about the fact that we don't indulge in the classic Black Metal rhetoric. The best way I can summarize the lyrics with a specific word is Social Realism."

From an interview with Vicotnik of which I don't know any link on the internet, I had found it on the myspace page of somebody.

I have to say that I'm disappointed with DsO now, if that is what they believe - that put them down a notch. "Deathspell Omega is for All the Evil in Man", I think all BM bands should start and finish with that statement and never elaborate beyond their lyrics.

I much prefer the 3rd generation BM Satanism; Emperor, Ulver, DHG, Arcturus - the artistic and elite rebellion. Those I've mentioned are of course not that realistic, but that Satan is more one and the same, rather than the NoEvDia STN. The Romantic Satan; "resistance and rebellion, to free yourself from the faceless systems of society and in the process entering the great becoming of your capacities, entering your potential." Comes dangerously close to Lavey Satanism, which I just find silly, the bands mentioned are a bit above that kind of theatricality. The AGM STN, as opposed to the BM STN... Hah!

Boah, a lot has happened here, or what? I can´t possibly add anything to that, except that I don´t believe you can pin down any "rules" of satanism which is, to me, the ultimate expression of individualism. Thus the only thing I laugh about is the formation of satanistic groups, this is just another expression of the pathetic human need to be guided by rules in some way without bringing up the effort to find rules or a moral codex for yourself (though some of the conclusions one finds might overlap with ideas of others). Rituals, too, are a sign of a mind too weak to reach conclusions on one´s own.

Satanism to me should be a way of living which springs from oneself, to find the inner "light" or what you may call it, without ANY influence from doctrines or whatever, just by observing the world as it is for yourself. Rebellion - well, to rebel, you have to be influenced from something before you can rebel against it, so that´s just another form of influence.

Haha, yeah, this thread derailed, ultrastyle. I think it's not that much about whether DsO or Abigor is the better band anymore...

I can see the point of worshipping a metaphysical Satan, as in an obsession with everything that is morally incorrect (with or without a Christian church saying so). Of course, then you'll have to begin at some sort of moral standpoint, either your own or society's (which is probably about the same), just to negate your own/society's morality for a sort of illuminating purpose (which I suppose is what "Gnostic Satanism" is about; illumination through nasty things, the things you connect to the Devil... but then you'll have to choose what kind of Devil you worship, and... circle argument!) To finish what I tried explaining in my brackets is that... religion - true religion - especially in the Western society of today, is based on an irrational love, no matter how dogmatic and strict the religion is. If you truly believe in some sort of deity in a society where traditional religion has become a shell of traditions you can freely disregard, to choose a religion, a cult, to worship/join, is purely irrational, the same way you love a certain person, football team, music genre et c. To belong and create an identity is of course a main purpose too (when the traditional religion, whatever it is, has been swept away by "enlightenment"). What Blaise Pascal said, you worship God with your heart, not your mind, and I think that is more than ever attributal to modern religions not bound to traditional ones. For example, when I listen to Deathspell Omega, what I feel is not a rational conclusion that "by explaining thusly I command that Satan is the One Lord and only Lord and this is why I'm right: ...", but a downright obsession with and love to Satan. Feels silly to write that, but the emotions put forth in the music, more than the lyrics, is their LOVE for SATAN. That's when you create black metal and it's true, when your feelings for the darkness and the devil is positive. Armagedda created that feeling to, that hell... they really feel for the dark side. A true spiritual dedication that goes beyond the messiness of your corpse-paint and the number of philosophical dissertations in you shelves. I can respect that as much as I respect any other religious belief, even though I think it is impossible to live out a proper Devil worshipping (Noevdia-Watain-DsO etc), so it stays intellectual.

It's when the BM kids start joining cults worshipping made-up/stolen deities (Temple of the Black Flame/MLO/218/Dissection-Arckanum jackasses etc), stealing Pythagorean numerology and Platonic Gnosticism just saying that the primeval absu-khaos (11) is BAD rather than the highest point being GOD. That, I can't respect, because that is just "I'm cooler and more evil than you" turned into a proper cult (yes, they have a Church for this in Stockholm). And I've met BM kids who really like people to believe that they're in some sort of Satanic church. I ask... "well, what do you do?" And he answered, of course, "I can't tell you that", but it was criminal, he made sure that I knew that. They probably have some sort of ranking system... "kill a rabbit, 20 Evil Points, kill a cat, 100 E.P., violate graveyards 20-200 E.P" etc.
Like a friend of mine, whose tentacles run deep within the Stockholm metal scene, said when I asked him about these 218 Chaos-Gnostics: "well... in the 80's they played Dungeons & Dragons". Complete fucking idiots. "The enemy" as another friend of mine likes to call them.

Isn't this basically the same as what existential philosophy tells us, from Kierkegaard to Sartre to Camus, only with Satan now as a new icon (exchangeable with Cain, Prometheus, my grandmother, etc...)? Found this quote which epitomizes it well:

"The precipitous slide of existentialism toward nihilism is only halted by its heavy emphasis on man's freedom. In exchange for this benefit, the individual must be willing to cast aside the weight of outmoded beliefs in a tough recognition of the meaninglessness of existence. He must choose, in other words, between "being and nothingness", between the "authentic" and "inauthentic" life. The "inauthentic" life is the unquestioned one which derives its rationale from a facile acceptance of those values external to the self. To live authentically, one must reject these assurances and therein discover the ability to create one's own values; in so doing each individual assumes responsibility for his life through the act of choosing between two alternatives. And since man is his own arbiter, he literally creates good and evil." (from Robert G. Porfirio "No Way Out: Existential Motifs In Film Noir", 1976)

Anyone by chance familiar with Kierkegaard's philosophy? I know he was a Christian, how does he reconcile existentialism and metaphysical Christian belief? That would be interesting.

Well this seems to be the fundamental difference between all these notions of what constitutes the "Satanic reality". Either you say that you smash all moral and ethical constructs imposed by society and then fill the void with, for instance, Tentakel's "inner light" or a new set of values that are meaningful to you (lest you fall victim to Nihilism). Or you say that you can reject as much as you want, you will never be able to fill the void because of the intrinsic flaw in the very essence of human being. "Let your soul become a vessel to Satan!", basically.

Isn't that a typical problem of the fragmented postmodern age, where everyone patches together random pieces to create an own identity in a social reality where everything is allowed and anything goes? Where any petty, minor interpretation, as marginal as it may be, is as good as any other and where everyone can rationally defend the most preposterous crap? Certainly any metaphysical belief has to be heart-felt than merely intuited or rationalized lest it become completely absurd (as our rationale is strictly limited to phenomenological reality). Meta-narratives, unquestioned beliefs and paradigms that formed the backbone of past societies, are all extinct now (a good thing) but not many are able to commit to values that seem not completely arbitrary. I know I am diverging from the point at hand again. Maybe this thread should be moved

Watch this and wish for a new Satanic inquisition:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANphRkGVLj8

Exactly my point! I think. So let's just return to this thread's purpose, of recommending bands.

My recommendation is, again: NARR! Dusk garden beauty made music. http://www.avantgarde-metal.com/content ... .php?id=58

REVOLUTION VOID

Electronic Breakbeat Jazz. Download their album "Increase The Dosage" legally from their website:

http://www.revolutionvoid.com/RV003/

Would be nice if you added some descriptions to your links, e.g. what makes it worthwhile to check out, why should I click on it, why do you recommend it etc..
I encounter too many music links already every day, especially myspace stuff, so a comment or two would be appreciated! At least the genre would be nice to know beforehand. Thanks!