hey i have a question

why is voivod's avantgenre....avantgarde metal?!

what is so avantgarde about them? i find nothing special about it, besides why do u speak so much good about them? i cant listen to them, i find them too boring

im not saying is a bad band or anything, i just want to know so special about them [and wich one do you think is their best album [ive listened to katorz and nothingface]]

They were one of the first progressive metal bands, and they were quite experimental compared to their peers back in the '80s, Killing Technology etc. Avantgarde by today's standards is pretty farfetched though.

Special? Well... they're a great band, a great progressive thrash metal band (up until Nothingface I guess, then forward they're not so much thrash anymore, but still great, at least up until the mid '90s.) They do take a while to get into, most albums of theirs that I've heard were boring in the beginning (like you, "what the hell is so special about them?"). But after a while... you get stuck. Listen to their albums from the early '90s, Angel Rat and The Outer Limits. Surprisingly good, considering what other thrash bands of the '80s did at that time. Their later albums I can't comment as I haven't heard them.

One very important thing about them I guess is their impact on musicians. Virus is very inspired by them, and Kekal have borrowed about half of their sound from Angel Rat/Outer Limits. Etc.

So give them another shot. And if they don't stick, well... you can't like every band that is legendary.

I would say spacey alien atmosphere and incredible guitar work of Piggy - original riffing, melodic feeling... Hard or impossible to copy.
With no doubt their approach and atmosphere influenced a lot of bands. Sometimes they were called Pink Floyd of thrash metal. (It is not by chance that they did a cover of PF's "Astronomy Domine"...)
As from the newer works, try Phobos album, if you want.

They did The Nile Song by PF on Outer Limits also. Pf is best when covered by Voivod, haha...
Yeah, Piggy was a master. RIP!

alright, so it is very relative... ill give them another shot then. and check those albums

and another band i kant get into... pink floyd... same issue, i find it boring.. any rekomendations?

Pink Floyd are the same for me. Everyone loves them, I don't. I understand why people like them, but seriously... they're sick boring. Great song-writers, but no... boring. Perhaps I should listen to their early albums rather than mid-70s though.

About Voivod : I thought the same as you for a very long time. Then I heard Dimension Hatross and Phobos. Enough said... You should try ;o) Two faces of Voivod, two masterpieces.

I got Phobos a few months ago but I really haven't gotten into it, it feels a bit too long and too little Snake... what have I missed?

It's kinda spectacular about Voivod, I just started listening to them seriously 1½ years ago, but they are now among my top 10 fav bands. Ain't bad at all.

As for Pink Floyd, although the fans usually vote for another albums, I would suggest Atom Heart Mother. Very strange one, maybe the most avantgarde... those brass arrangements:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE4sB_h2bMQ
And then probably Animals (very ambient and moody)...
I ask myself sometimes, if they were some kind of precursor of doom metal? )

Animals is very strong album, indeed. If I would suggest some album, I vote Meddle or A Saucerful of Secrets, but I like Meddle more.

Also, I like every single one album by PF, but don´t understand little bit the weigh which is given to the Dark Side of the Moon album. It´s great, sure, but there are stronger albums. Or The Wall. I love the movie, but I can´t find it so ´artish´or profound like it´s usually called. People should listen to the Floyd´s more, definetely.

For me are PF with their earlier work predecessors of many styles, while I can´t find more influental band in 20th century.

Yeah, there are a lot of weirder bands out there these days, but I think Voivod still deserves a place in the avant garde world. They had a huge influence on a lot my favorite bands (Ved Buens Ende/Virus, Gorguts, Enslaved, probably Dodheimsgard...the list goes on and on). Musically I think they are still way ahead of 99% of the metal out there these days. The weirdness of the music isn't right in your face, it's more subtle, mostly in the interesting chord combinations that Piggy used. To my knowledge, they were the first metal band to really experiment with dissonance in any meaningful way. Piggy is still my favorite guitarist. My favorites by them are Nothingface and Phobos--two albums with very different styles, and both totally unique masterpieces.

obscurant: right to the point. I don't think you can underestimate their importance on laterday bands, like those you mentioned. hell, even Darkthrone's Sardonic Wrath album is dedicated to Piggy's work, the song Tornado in particular. Voivod works on many levels, both thrash (at least the first three-four albums) and progressive. really really sad that he died, I wonder how the hell they can continue, if they will continue.

@ anti-citizen :

check out the voivod albums :
rrrrrrroaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrr
war and pain
killing technology
dimension hatross


see how the thrash gets progressively more technical...from the chaotic beginnings to the strange time signatures and discordant chops...notice also how no one else sounded like this in the 80's

check out the pink floyd albums:
piper at the gates of dawn
meddle

I think I like "Nothingface" best, ... great bass tone, angular chords, better singing, but still not overly cleaned up yet. Unfortunately, after "The Outer Limits", they just seemed to lose it.

I thought the self-titled "comeback" with Jason Newstead was utterly boring. Too bad, since Piggy's guitar playing was so interesting and different from anything else in their heyday.

Adding my two-cents again, ...

King Crimson-begat-Voivod-begat-Meshuggah/Mayhem: a theory.

I was just listening to some of the re-issues of the classic 1974-era King Crimson live recordings, and I really think Piggy and Blackie must have been listening heavily to KC's "Red" or "Starless" while they were writing material for "Dimension Hatross" and "Nothingface" - compare Blackie's bass tone to that of John Wetton's - heavy, distorted, very active, almost jazzy "walking" lines,...

Then after listening to "Dimension Hatross", try listening to Meshuggah's odd time signatures and tempos - wonder where these come from??

AND - listen to Mayhem's "Chimera" - there are some very Fripp-ish angular guitar riffs in there, ... or are they "Piggy-ish"?